Why Capable People Burn Out Doing Everything Alone Ft. Nata Salvatori
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Why Capable People Burn Out Doing Everything Alone Ft. Nata Salvatori
Farya: Hello and welcome to From Trauma to CEO, a podcast where we explore the internal architecture of success, and not just how we can achieve the success, but how we lead, grow, and sustain that.
So today, for our very first interview, I am so excited to be speaking with someone whose work actually beautifully bridges clarity, strategy, and leadership without the burnout—my kind of people.
So, I am joined with Nata Salvatori, she is the founder of The Accidental CEO, business scaling and leadership coach who helps high-capacity entrepreneurs step out of over-responsibility and learn to lead with clarity, trust, and ease. She is a multi-business owner, speaker, educator, and a creator of the Return Framework, which I love by the way, and it actually helps leaders to shift from overwhelm to embodied CEO. Welcome, Nata, and she's also a very good friend of mine, so...
Nata: Thank you so much, what an honor to be your first guest. I'm so excited for you. Congratulations on launching this amazing podcast, I know it's going to be a great resource for people.
Farya: Thank you, thank you, and I'm so excited to have you because I think when we first met and we started speaking, I think within the first 5 or 10 minutes, I was thinking, "Oh my god, this woman is speaking my language." And of course, with all the work that you're doing and your background in psychology and all the things that you've gone through and all the things that you have done, all the incredible things that you've done, I think it's fair to say that it has really prepared you for this role, right? So, for people that don't know you or don't know your work, which by the way, everybody should because it's that amazing, can you tell us a little bit about what it is exactly that you do, and I know that you have multiple businesses, but just talk us through what it is you do, especially when it comes to working with kind of leadership, but in a way that is sustainable and in a way that makes success something that people don't dread, but people actually get excited about?
Nata: Yeah, so I call myself a freedom-first leadership coach, so I help people scale their business in a way that kind of brings their identity back and help them get out of that operator mindset and into the true CEO position they should be in when they are leading their business. So, my client is really that person who at face value has a great business, everything is going well, they're making money, but behind the scenes, they're drowning. They need the help to understand how to take things to the next level. But a lot of times, it's not the people that are out there raising their hands saying, "I need help, help me," you know, because they feel that even a little bit of that guilt of like, "Hey, my business is actually doing well, I'm making money," but we all at some point need a little bit of coaching and a little bit of mentorship. So, those are the people that I usually help take things to the next level.
Farya: Amazing. It's absolutely true as well because I think there is something to be said about how people who are doing well and people who are high achievers, it is a little bit more difficult for them to acknowledge maybe at times of that they're not even struggling because a lot of the times they can't identify in a way their struggle, because they've been doing it for so long—I mean, I know I've been in that position as well—that having hard work or hustling or grinding and all of that, it becomes part of like your identity because you've been doing it for so long. So that's why I think this kind of work is so important because you're essentially teaching them how to first identify the parts that are may not necessarily be working, and then again, because they are so used to that pattern, they may not be able to recognize it so easily. Yeah, no I love that. I know that you're a host of a podcast Accidental CEO, so I wanted to ask you, when did you realize that actually your leadership and you becoming a CEO was not actually accidental, and then you thought about, okay, there should be a framework that you should be teaching others, which is very important? So I want to know a little bit about kind of your own process to become not an accidental CEO but the intentional one.
Nata: Yeah, I love that. I mean, the name, it's great for conversation starter, and it is a name that a lot of people identify with because there's a lot of us out there who did not plan to be CEOs. Like, I had a whole career in healthcare before this and my plan was to retire over there, I had no intentions of running my own business. So, I think it's something that a lot of us go through, and I have this on my website, it's you're a CEO by chance, but successful by choice, right? Just because you find yourself in this position that you didn't plan doesn't mean we don't put the effort into learning how to do it well and be successful. So, not to be used as an excuse to be like, "Oh, I don't really know how to do this, I'm just going to fake it till I make it," but we are in this position and we had the privilege to own our own business, which is a privilege. It comes with its own hardships and time to hustle, but what can we do to make it successful now that we are in this environment? So, to me, it was just understanding that this was a new path in life for me, that I needed to then now go to figure out the skills to do this, just like I did for my previous profession. So understanding how to put together a business that sustained the kind of lifestyle that you really want when you start your own business, because nobody starts their own business to work, you know, 24/7, which is what a lot of people ended up doing. We leave our 8-to-5 thinking that we're going to have all this freedom and all this free time because now we are the owner of our business, and we ended up working a lot more than we did when we're working for somebody else, so how can we repackage this concept of owning our business in a way that brings that freedom first framework back into our lives? So that's really what I do and what I teach people do.
Farya: Oh, that's amazing. It actually reminds me that I saw somewhere that in a group that you were introducing yourself and you mentioned that you have multiple businesses and somebody came along and asked, "Oh, you know, how do you manage that?" And it's so interesting because that's the core of your work, and I know how dedicated you are to that messaging and that is your value, right? The not burning out, not having the freedom as you said first. So, I thought it was so interesting because you are actually a person that demonstrates the best, right, because with having so many different businesses, I know you've got two beautiful children, and I know what a dedicated and an amazing mom that you are, and everything else, and also what an amazing friend that you are as well! So, I just want to know, I mean you are somebody that a lot of people might look to and identify as somebody who is successful, who has multiple businesses, amazing mom, amazing friend, everything, and I guess what I want to know is, how did you come to this, how did you get to this foundation of, okay, I'm just going to be fabulous and I'm going to not burn out being fabulous?
Nata: I just have it all figured out! No, really, thanks for all those very kind—I want people to know that everything I talk about is because I walk the walk. Like, I talk the talk because I walk the walk, so I've been the one working until 1:00, 2:00 in the morning, 12-hour days, and being exhausted, and being missing things, missing family events, missing time with my husband and friends, and so I've been there where I think there's a time and place for the hustle and everybody's business, I think when we're starting, it's normal and it's needed. And I think to be a good CEO, you need to understand all the moving parts of your business, which means you have to maybe do a little bit of thing, everything, and understand to then know what to pass on to other people. So, I think there is a phase for that, I don't think it's something that needs to be shamed. I remember being shamed by people all the time that I worked too much and, "Oh my gosh, you do too much, and how can you do that?" and how can you handle, how can you never burn out? And because of just my personality and everything has happened and the way I am, I tend not to, quote-unquote, burn out. There is a joke around with my friends, it's like, "Do you have to have a clone or something like, how can you never get tired?" And I always tell people, I crash once a year, it's hilarious. Like, once a year my body goes like, "I don't care what time it is, we're going to go to sleep right now." And it could be like 4:30 in the afternoon, and I just—it's so exhausted that I have to just go lay down and I will sleep for like 12 hours, 14 hours, and then I'll go on for another day, for another year without having to rest again, so this is our joke that like once a year I crash. Otherwise I'm fine, but it was a lot of hustling and going through that and understanding that that's not sustainable, that's not how I wanted to leave my life, which I think a lot of us go through that process.
But then developing a framework of sustainability around what I do and having the systems to support. So, understanding how to hire, what to delegate, what to keep, what is inside of my zone of genius that only I can do, and going through that identity shift of, I am not the only one that can do this. There's other people that can do it just as well as I can, if not better than I can, which is a whole thing to deal with. Understanding what to delegate, how to delegate properly to get good outcomes. So, those are all things that I went through myself and then help several clients go through, which is where the framework came about and it's definitely doable. I think it's something that I know we all want, we all aim for that, but we just don't know how to get there. And a lot of times it's a combination of identity work, understanding who you are and what you need to be focusing on, and then strategies, so combining good strategies that will support that freedom that you want, so...
Farya: No, I know, I mean you do so many different things and sometimes people just take one small aspect and I think your magic, truly, is when somebody sits down with you on a one-on-one basis and they can really tap into your zone of genius. And I think you managed to really capture that for yourself really well, and I do think that it has everything to do with all the internal work that you've done. How you built yourself and then using that to build a system that is now helping others do the same, and it's just fabulous, I'm so excited.
I actually have a question about money, because, and I want to ask you this because I know that you're doing really well, which I'm so happy and excited for you, but I also want to see if you can leave some something some kind of insight for people who are listening, because a big chunk of the work that I do with people, with clients, is around money block, right? And so many amazing, amazing people, talented, hard-working, and they get stuck with under-earning in my opinion. So, in your experience, what do you think is the real thing that keeps people under-earning and how do you tackle that for yourself, firstly, but also with your clients?
Nata: Yeah, at the end of the day and so I definitely had it myself, I had to go through the whole process, I remember when I started my first business, it was a hard time for me to charging a lot of money for things because I was basically selling to myself, right? So I think one of the big things is understanding that sometimes we are not our ideal client, that's a big one, so stop selling to yourself because a lot of times we're spending our clients' money for them, we're trying to help them like save some money or not pay too much and that money is going to go somewhere, so why not to you, right?
So, a lot of times when there's too much of our self-worth connected to what we charge, I think that's a huge deal, understanding how to separate your self-worth from your services and your offers is a huge thing, that's one of the barriers that I see very often with my clients. And then, just understanding that you are helping, like when you're selling is not doing something to somebody, is doing something for somebody, so understanding that you are selling from a place of love, meaning you are helping solve a problem. This person is coming to you with their money saying, "Help me," and when you're not taking that money, you're basically turning your back on them and saying, "No thanks, like I don't want to help you, because I don't feel worthy of taking that money." So, there's so much work that needs to be done on the back end to really understand what your self-worth is and how that is disconnected from all of that stuff. I mean, it's definitely a big place to start for everybody that is feeling that they're getting stuck with how much they're making, how much they're earning, there's amazing books out there, but I invite you guys to work with somebody like Farya or myself to really help you guys see where that is coming from. Sometimes those are things that we heard when we were little, that we went through that we don't even realize that is just in the back of our brain, right? And that we're just living through these upper limits and misconceptions of whatever you want to call it that is keeping us from making those decisions that really help us elevate our income and everything else, so I went through it, I had to rewire how I think about money and start thinking of money as a good thing, I teach my kids now about money and we talk about it often, we talk about how that's a good thing and how you can do more good things when you have more money and I want them to have a very positive feeling and thought about money and it's not something that was done to me, so...
Farya: Oh, that's amazing. First of all, I'm glad that you brought that up because it's important to also identify that not all therapists, not all coaches, not everybody is trauma-informed and, for I'm still really now struggling to understand how any work that's not trauma-informed can be sustainable over a long period of time. And we see that a lot, right? All the hype, the motivation, the inspirational talks and everything, great, it will last for a day or a week or a month, and then people go back to how they were and then this time, they internalize it and they go, "Well, maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just not great at this." So, this was a good reminder to let everybody know that actually it's not you, it's that the system has not been advanced enough, at least for the complexity of us as human beings, right? And it doesn't take into account our experiences, our past, and most importantly, our traumas. So thank you for mentioning that. And I love that you mentioned about the breathwork session. I love to hear a little bit about what you're saying about that and how you integrate that with the work where people are let's say they know they want to achieve more, they know they want to expand and grow more, as a person, it doesn't have to be necessarily business or work, just as a person to grow, and how breathwork can connect people a little bit more to their bodies. I'm asking you this because I'm always saying to people that breathwork please like it's great, but you need to actually do it with a professional because I had a client a while ago and she came back to me, she said, "Farya, I did a breathwork session after our conversations," although I don't know why she went rogue and she thought that she should do that, and then she had an episode of like hyperventilation because of her history and her past, and that wasn't taken into account in how the breathwork was going to impact her or so, I love to hear a little bit about that and how you ensure that's the right step for people.
Nata: Yeah, it's interesting, and there's so many types of breathwork, so yeah, when I found breathwork, I first found meditation. And it's interesting because when I look back at the person that really got me into meditation, she did a lot of breath in it, but just in a different way. And it used to irritate me almost because I was like, "Why is she breathing so much?" because I wasn't into breathwork then, and so I was almost like, "Why is she breathing so much?" It was like almost like this resistance, this weird resistance I had, which now I really know about all my resistances and why I'm not open to things sometimes. But so for breath, it's such a wide range, right? And there's so much hype around it now. I love it, and it can be good, and it can be done inappropriately, right? Like sometimes when you see like these big events and there's like a hundred people breathing, and then like I always think like, "Where are they going to go now?" because they've just been screaming and releasing and all these things, right? And I just wonder like, "Are they following up with somebody? Is there an after-follow-up with someone? Are they going to integrate?" So, the way that I do breath, and I just really, honestly, this past week I was in Costa Rica with a group of entrepreneurs, I had my own retreat and then I was attending a retreat, and someone said to me, "Oh, you trained under the certain person, I don't like their breath, that's not for me." Normally, I would have probably got defensive about that, my old pattern would have been to been like, "Oh, what does she know?" and stuff like that, but instead I said, because I'm really solid in my breathwork and I said to her, "I really wish you were going to be here for this later part of the retreat to be in my session, because I think you would think differently about that breath pattern." Because there are different types of breath patterns, right? Some are very activating, some are less activating, the reality is activating, non-activating, it's really coming from the person's system, right? And so we are activating their nervous system in a way that we can't possibly know everybody's history, right? Normally you would take a history, they fill out a form, they sign a release, right? But I even in my sessions have had people that there was something that I didn't really think of, in one case, someone had had a blood clot in the past, so just the breathing alone brought them back to when they couldn't breathe and they were in the hospital, right, so you can't possibly figure everything out, but now I ask that question because I've experienced that, where she was a bit triggered by it. And I think the trauma information, the trauma-informed sense of consenting people and also asking them and letting them know that their body is actually in charge, right? It isn't about pushing them, it isn't about them getting to the next level. Can people have psychedelic experiences in my breathwork? Yes, and they do every time. They have visits from people that have passed on, they have beautiful, blissful events with people that are no longer with us, they meet their inner child, they solve problems when they're breathing, but I am informing them the entire way about it is their body, it's their sovereignty, I am just guiding them, I'm asking them to start to listen, and part of my teaching when I am doing breathwork because I think now that I have encountered a lot of other people's breathwork, I talk a lot in my breathwork, but really what I'm doing, Farya, is I am infusing all the modalities I have learned, I'm bringing in a little inner child, I'm bringing in a little NLP, I'm bringing in some anchoring, I'm giving them consent throughout, I'm reminding them throughout, listen to your body, so even if their mind isn't completely with me, their subconscious is, I believe, and so they know, that lady that time with the past blood clot, she knew to stop the breath and go back to the first breath or go back to her natural breath because our body is intelligent, right? I said it so many times that she was like, "I got nervous, but then I just went back to my regular breath and I was okay, but I just wanted to share that with you." So, I actually just recently was realizing because I was marketing my somatic breathwork, but there's a lot that goes on in my sessions and it is, I believe, very trauma-informed and people have amazing results. I've also been trained in hypno-breathwork, so I'm doing a little hypnosis during it and I'm bringing them in and out of different situations, but in a way that they are always in control of. And to me that is very important, our choice and sovereignty has been taken away a lot, especially where I live! So, as a woman, I don't want to be this guru coach who you have to do it my way and this is the only way. What I have found in these healing arts, because let's be real, we leave these places that are not making us feel good and we can experience that in this genre of stuff, too, right? So, I don't want anyone to come to me because I have all the answers, right? We want them to connect with their body, so they may not get the answer they want from me right away because their body has a lot of protectors, so even with breathwork, if I'm trying to create a safe space within their body for them, I always say to people, "Listen, sometimes we can go right through the front door, but sometimes we have to go through the basement window, and it's slow, and it's tedious," but that is what this work is. It isn't like you do this one thing and it gets done, and we've solved your traumas and we've energetically cleared them, and it's all over, this is slow work.
So, I'm so glad that you mentioned about the breathwork session. I love to hear a little bit about what you're saying about that and how you integrate that with the work where people are let's say they know they want to achieve more, they know they want to expand and grow more, as a person, it doesn't have to be necessarily business or work, just as a person to grow, and how breathwork can connect people a little bit more to their bodies. I'm asking you this because I'm always saying to people that breathwork please like it's great, but you need to actually do it with a professional because I had a client a while ago and she came back to me, she said, "Farya, I did a breathwork session after our conversations," although I don't know why she went rogue and she thought that she should do that, and then she had an episode of like hyperventilation because of her history and her past, and that wasn't taken into account in how the breathwork was going to impact her or so, I love to hear a little bit about that and how you ensure that's the right step for people.
Nata: Yeah, it's interesting, and there's so many types of breathwork, so yeah, when I found breathwork, I first found meditation. And it's interesting because when I look back at the person that really got me into meditation, she did a lot of breath in it, but just in a different way. And it used to irritate me almost because I was like, "Why is she breathing so much?" because I wasn't into breathwork then, and so I was almost like, "Why is she breathing so much?" It was like almost like this resistance, this weird resistance I had, which now I really know about all my resistances and why I'm not open to things sometimes. But so for breath, it's such a wide range, right? And there's so much hype around it now. I love it, and it can be good, and it can be done inappropriately, right? Like sometimes when you see like these big events and there's like a hundred people breathing, and then like I always think like, "Where are they going to go now?" because they've just been screaming and releasing and all these things, right? And I just wonder like, "Are they following up with somebody? Is there an after-follow-up with someone? Are they going to integrate?" So, the way that I do breath, and I just really, honestly, this past week I was in Costa Rica with a group of entrepreneurs, I had my own retreat and then I was attending a retreat, and someone said to me, "Oh, you trained under the certain person, I don't like their breath, that's not for me." Normally, I would have probably got defensive about that, my old pattern would have been to been like, "Oh, what does she know?" and stuff like that, but instead I said, because I'm really solid in my breathwork and I said to her, "I really wish you were going to be here for this later part of the retreat to be in my session, because I think you would think differently about that breath pattern." Because there are different types of breath patterns, right? Some are very activating, some are less activating, the reality is activating, non-activating, it's really coming from the person's system, right? And so we are activating their nervous system in a way that we can't possibly know everybody's history, right? Normally you would take a history, they fill out a form, they sign a release, right? But I even in my sessions have had people that there was something that I didn't really think of, in one case, someone had had a blood clot in the past, so just the breathing alone brought them back to when they couldn't breathe and they were in the hospital, right, so you can't possibly figure everything out, but now I ask that question because I've experienced that, where she was a bit triggered by it. And I think the trauma information, the trauma-informed sense of consenting people and also asking them and letting them know that their body is actually in charge, right? It isn't about pushing them, it isn't about them getting to the next level. Can people have psychedelic experiences in my breathwork? Yes, and they do every time. They have visits from people that have passed on, they have beautiful, blissful events with people that are no longer with us, they meet their inner child, they solve problems when they're breathing, but I am informing them the entire way about it is their body, it's their sovereignty, I am just guiding them, I'm asking them to start to listen, and part of my teaching when I am doing breathwork because I think now that I have encountered a lot of other people's breathwork, I talk a lot in my breathwork, but really what I'm doing, Farya, is I am infusing all the modalities I have learned, I'm bringing in a little inner child, I'm bringing in a little NLP, I'm bringing in some anchoring, I'm giving them consent throughout, I'm reminding them throughout, listen to your body, so even if their mind isn't completely with me, their subconscious is, I believe, and so they know, that lady that time with the past blood clot, she knew to stop the breath and go back to the first breath or go back to her natural breath because our body is intelligent, right? I said it so many times that she was like, "I got nervous, but then I just went back to my regular breath and I was okay, but I just wanted to share that with you." So, I actually just recently was realizing because I was marketing my somatic breathwork, but there's a lot that goes on in my sessions and it is, I believe, very trauma-informed and people have amazing results. I've also been trained in hypno-breathwork, so I'm doing a little hypnosis during it and I'm bringing them in and out of different situations, but in a way that they are always in control of. And to me that is very important, our choice and sovereignty has been taken away a lot, especially where I live!
So, as a woman, I don't want to be this guru coach who you have to do it my way and this is the only way. What I have found in these healing arts, because let's be real, we leave these places that are not making us feel good and we can experience that in this genre of stuff, too, right? So, I don't want anyone to come to me because I have all the answers, right? We want them to connect with their body, so they may not get the answer they want from me right away because their body has a lot of protectors, so even with breathwork, if I'm trying to create a safe space within their body for them, I always say to people, "Listen, sometimes we can go right through the front door, but sometimes we have to go through the basement window, and it's slow, and it's tedious," but that is what this work is.
And I know that your work is a bit different because you are bringing in your background, so you can easily identify what to do and how to help people, but for someone who is looking into doing breathwork, I think it's very important to have someone that is trauma-informed and that knows how to navigate that, and I know that you have been doing that with your clients. So, I want to hear if you have any other information that you want to share with us about your work and your framework and where people can find you.
Nata: Yeah, so the return framework, it's all about that, it's about returning back to yourself, returning back to your body, returning back to your heart. And I work with my clients to create that space for them to look at what's really going on beneath the surface and then find out what their body is telling them, so they can align their business with their life, not their life with their business. And so, you can find me on accidentalceo.co, that's my website, or you can find me on Instagram at accidentalceo.co. And I would love to see you there, come say hi!
Farya: Amazing, thank you so much, Nata, for sharing your story and your wisdom, and I look forward to your book coming out, and I look forward to working with you more and continuing our conversations. So, thank you again for being with us today.
Narrator: Thank you for listening to From Trauma to CEO: The Psychology of Transformational Success with Farya Barlas. Check out the show notes for more information on how to continue this work or explore more of Farya's teachings. If this episode resonated, please follow, review, and share it with someone who needs this message. And we'll see you in the next episode.
Series Architecture & Concept Map
Trauma-Led Success vs. Reparative Realignment
Across her podcast series, host Farya Barlas provides an analytical model mapping how childhood strategies designed for baseline survival can manifest as high professional velocity.
TRAUMA-LED SUCCESS REPARATIVE SUCCESS ┌───────────────────────────────┐ ┌───────────────────────────────┐ │ • Driven by survival impulses │ │ • Driven by genuine desire │ │ • Identity is tied to output │ ───► │ • Identity detached from work │ │ • Functions as a regulator │ │ • Built for sustainable joy │ └───────────────────────────────┘ └───────────────────────────────┘
The core components of this operational framework are defined below:
The Concept of Continuity Over Control: High achievers who over-prepare, micromanage, or struggle to delegate are frequently labeled as "control freaks". However, Barlas notes that these systems are actually driven by an intense craving for operational continuity. The nervous system equates hyper-alertness, pacing, and over-delivering with safety because those tools kept early environments stable.
The Trap of Functionality: High-performing individuals internalize a dangerous sub-rule: "If I am currently functioning, I don't need help; and because I don't need help, I am not permitted to ask for it." Competence transforms from a temporary strength into an absolute, structural prerequisite for personal worth.
The Void of Open Space: When an engine built on structural pressure or intergenerational trauma suddenly faces open space (e.g., a quiet schedule, holidays, or a successful launch), it reacts with panic, agitation, or a somatic freeze response. The system misinterprets non-production as a direct threat to its identity.
High-Achiever Somatic Tool
To evaluate if your current motivation is built on clean strategic execution or an unconscious, trauma-led loop, use the following self-checks outlined by Barlas:
1. The Open Space Somatic Test
Imagine taking an extended, complete period of time off—not a weekend or a single day, but a prolonged operational freeze. Pay attention to the very first baseline reaction your body exhibits:
Relief & Physiological Softening: Indicates typical, healthy physical fatigue.
Agitation, Chronic Restlessness, or Urgent Problem-Seeking: Signals that your career is acting as a subconscious containment system.
2. The "Making It Count" Pressure Check
Focus your attention internally and ask your body: "What inside of me tightens when I think about making this year count?" Observe the tight or tense regions of your chest, jaw, or stomach. Then ask: "What shifts or softens when I imagine moving forward without that pressure?" This physical shift reveals exactly where your system is trapped in survival architecture.
If you have another audio file or wish to shift focus into a different segment of the analytical model, tell me what you're working on and we can get started!
Episode Summary
In this episode of From Trauma to CEO, Farya Barlas sits down with leadership coach and entrepreneur Nata Salvatori for a powerful conversation about sustainable success, identity work, and building businesses without sacrificing yourself in the process.
Together, they explore the psychology behind burnout, over-responsibility, and high achievement, while unpacking how trauma, change, and personal history can shape leadership styles. Nata also shares the philosophy behind her Return Framework and explains how entrepreneurs can shift from overwhelmed operators into embodied CEOs who lead with clarity, trust, and freedom.
What You’ll Learn
Why many successful entrepreneurs struggle to recognize burnout when overworking has become part of their identity.
How trauma, adaptability, and life experiences can become leadership strengths when processed intentionally.
The difference between building a business from fear and building from expansion, purpose, and alignment.
Why sustainable leadership requires both practical business strategy and deep identity work.
How Nata Salvatori’s Return Framework helps business owners move from chaos and over-responsibility into clarity, delegation, and ease.
Resources
Free Diagnostic: faryabarlas.com/diagnostic
Method™: faryabarlas.com/services
Book a Call: Book with Farya Barlas
Learn More About Nata Salvatori: The Accidental CEO
